imac vs pc

[bazz]

hey can someone tell me the pro and cons of the apple imac compared to say a pentium 4 hp pc which is what i have. a mate of mine is upgrading to a bigger imac that is aparrently coming out. and reckons he will sell it to me cheap as. but i know nothing about the imac. any help or personal opinions appreciated.

[remotebandit]

omg , here we go thanx for a 500 reply thread with no outcome Bazz . Its holden vs ford theres never a winner .

Anyway , im gonna now sit on the fence and laugh at the non winning battle here

[KingBob]

I'll wait for Kai to chime in :P

[Emlyn]

one of the problem about mac is having no right click but u could get used to it i guess.

[NightWolf]

imac is ok they are very good for video editing ect not to crash hot for games. If its for internet chat browsing email imac is fine
i love my pc for all things quad coore 2.66 gig
<span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Thu Jul 31 2008, 09:15PM ]</span>

[Dan]

pfft mac's.... yeh like nightwolf said they're great for video editing and music recording etc. but useless for games, if you want something SUPER-FAST get a Quad core prosessor overclocked to 4.0ghz with 8gb of RAM etc .... this is jus my opinion...i cant stand macs'! apart form their ipods :)

[NightWolf]

32 bit win only sees 3.3 gig

[Kai]

omg , here we go thanx for a 500 reply thread with no outcome Bazz . Its holden vs ford theres never a winner .

yer you are right RB!!!!

Unless your running 64bit windows then anything over 3 gigs of ram will be a wast as windows wont see it.

that is crap Mac will see up to 32 Gb on every system of Mac and the New Mac OS will see 16TB of RAM (dont know why but it is good)!!!!

before you get one or the other ask your self would you rather have just Windows OS or would you like to be able to use Windows and Mac AT THE SAME TIME. If it is the first one than get the PC with Windows on it but if you would like Mac and windows at the same time or only one at a time but still both on the same box than get a Mac as it can run Windows too so you will get the best of both worlds...

this is shown in this ad!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUS3Yc0LRC4

[remotebandit]

Kai , i never ever thought id say this but mate , that was an excellent answer buddy and infact the best answer ive ever seen on a mac vs pc thread .

respect

[KingBob]

Or just run Linux on a pc :P

[bazz]

i already have an average pc , were the imacs always able to run windows all of the time.

[Kai]

No only the intel macs which is every Mac after 2006

[bazz]

cheers kai. do you think its good idea if i got one cheap enough. or are there any problems with the things . i am not the computer buff thats all.

[*TOP DOG*]

16 TB of RAM WTF is the POINT?

[Kai]

cheers kai. do you think its good idea if i got one cheap enough. or are there any problems with the things . i am not the computer buff thats all.

to run XP on a mac you will need a copy of XP and if possible ask the friend (if he knows how to use bootcamp (which is what the program is called to run XP))
or you can buy software to run XP at the same time as Mac like http://store.apple.com/us/product/TP185LL/A?fnode=home/shop_mac/software/utilities&mco=MTYyMDA
or
http://store.apple.com/us/product/TN831LL/A?fnode=home/shop_mac/software/utilities&mco=MTYyMDE


and TD in a mac it is not only the CPU that makes the computer process faster it is also the RAM!!! (DONT ASK WHY I DONT KNOW THAT IS JUST WHAT I HEAD FORM THE IT STAFF AT MY SCHOOL) and some movies making companies have over 1000 computers working on a movie at the same time but with the more RAM you can put in a computer the less need for more computers.
<span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Fri Aug 01 2008, 11:33PM ]</span>

[remotebandit]

you do realise guys that in 5 years when you look back on this thread and see that we were talking about 4 core processors and our current set ups we will be sitting there thinking how the hell did we live on these dinosours that were only good to play games .

3ish years ago i bought 1 of the first proper pda style phones being the o2 and mate , that came with a MASSIVE 256 meg memory car that youd never be able to fill as it was 256meg .... uhhhmmm , wot are they up to now .... uhm does 32gig sound correct .. yes that right weve gone up over 15 times in only a few years .

I remember my first PC ... wow ... 4 meg or ram , this thing was a monster and we were so wrapped we paid the extra money for the 4 meg over the 2 meg which back in those days was a massive hit like over $200 difference and that PC rocked , did everything we wanted but look back now and need i say more .

I habve no doubt at all the above specs will be here within 5 years NO DOUBT and god only imagines what turn PCs will have in terms of going outside the square on what they can do now , its going to be like the 3rd dimension where they actually do more than word process , play games , surf for porn etc .

Just my thoughts but its gonna be massive by the time our 5 year old kids get to high school and laugh at how we did it back in the day on our pissy 3gig 4 gig ram 500gig HDD blue ray playing 17.1inch screen laptops / PCs

[Matt]

He's talking about RAM dude... 4 megabytes.

Back in the day I had an Amiga wtith 512k, my nanna bought me the 512k upgrade for $200. I was then a part of the "1 Meg" club at school because I had a megabyte of memory.

I have here with me a Commodore 64, in the box, never used. It has a 5 1/4 inch floppy drive also unused. Im going to buy a couple of joysticks for it, along with some classics and fire it up! Remember Outrun?

[NightWolf]

just play them on the emulators for pc

[Matt]

and TD in a mac it is not only the CPU that makes the computer process faster it is also the RAM!!! (DONT ASK WHY I DONT KNOW THAT IS JUST WHAT I HEAD FORM THE IT STAFF AT MY SCHOOL) and some movies making companies have over 1000 computers working on a movie at the same time but with the more RAM you can put in a computer the less need for more computers.




Thats incorrect.

The reason why more memory appears to increase the computers speed is due to the CPU not needing as many wait-states to receive data from memory.

A wait-state is when the CPU is sitting and waiting for data to be fed to it. When a computer has increased memory, it can hold more data in the memory chips (and not on the hard drive) and therefor can move stuff around a lot faster.

The more memory you have, more of the operating systems "kernel" can be held in memory, more area can be allocated for system resources, OS cache, etc. This equals less wait time from the CPU which _appears_ to the user to make the computer faster.

The fact is, 3 billion cycles per second (a 3ghz CPU) is always going to be 3 billions cycles per second regardless of how much memory the computer has.

How many of those cycles are wait-states depends on how quickly the CPU can grab data from memory (chip memory, or hard drive)

Im surprised your school teacher didnt also add that the faster the hard drive then the faster the computer would be. Although he would be wrong, he would be right in how it would appear to the user. Less wait-states for the CPU when retreiving data from the hard drive.

Matt.

[Matt]

Unless your running 64bit windows then anything over 3 gigs of ram will be a wast as windows wont see it.

that is crap Mac will see up to 32 Gb on every system of Mac and the New Mac OS will see 16TB of RAM (dont know why but it is good)!!!!


That is also incorrect.

RC King is right.

A 32 bit processor can only truely address 4 gigabytes of memory. To use over 4 gigabytes of memory, you require a 64 bit processor.

The MAC OS _may_ be able to address over 4 gig, yes, but your hardware will not (unless your hardware has a true 64 bit processor).

Matt.

[Kai]

so matt what is this then?????
http://img.skitch.com/20080803-b7wcbi14ab5gycck38e8th5gip.jpg

Apple would not let people put 32 Gb in a computer and not be able to use it!!!!

and by the way we are going off topic!!!!!

[James-Admin]

Almost all new macs have 64-bit architecture.

[Matt]

so matt what is this then?????
http://img.skitch.com/20080803-b7wcbi14ab5gycck38e8th5gip.jpg

Apple would not let people put 32 Gb in a computer and not be able to use it!!!!

and by the way we are going off topic!!!!!


Kai, thats a 32gig memory upgrade option for a _XEON_ CPU based system. XEON is 64bit. 64bit will address greater than 4 gigabytes. Well done, you just provided proof to back up my post :)

Would you like me to start a thread on Intel CPU's to cover the basics for you? I dont mind writing up some info on processors and all that. Let me know.

[mangoman]

Well to me it doesnt really look like anyone has answered the question.

First of all a Pentium 4 is now a fairly old machine. If you throw 1 GB of RAM at a P4 generally speaking it will do ok with word/excel/email/internet browsing (general office stuff).
Start playing the latest games though and its not really gunna go anywhere.

Now looking at an iMac there are different specifications of iMacs, id be interested in knowing how much he is selling you the second hand iMac for and its spec. These days you can get a decent PC (the box only) for around $700-800, including vista but more on that later.

Your main question is gunna come down to, are all the programs you want to run gunna run on the Mac. Most mainstream software can run on the MAC but if you use little bits and pieces of software then it is very likely they have not gone to the trouble or writing a Mac version. You will still be able to run the software using windows emulator software but its a major hassle to do that.
IE if you have a tekin esc, they do not have a mac version of their hotwire software.

Further to that software which you currently run on your PC may be slightly different on the Mac. Further to this because you have a fully licensed windows version of the software doesnt mean you can use it on the mac (ie MS Office you would have to get a new different version for the mac).
Or if you are gunna "borrow" software from a friend they more than likely wont have a mac version.

Personally if you are gunna get a Mac and run windows on in i dont see the point.
The main advantages of the Mac are that it is (a) apparently COOL and people (b) dont like windows. If you are gunna run windows run it on a PC, you are paying a massive premium to run it on a Mac hardware.

As an IT Professional it is easy for me to repair a PC because parts are readily available. This is not so much the case with a Mac i guess it will depend on your local service center/store but in the case you have problems with your Mac there are probably less people who you will know that can help you out.
Generally speaking you will have less problems with a Mac but i personally believe that is because it is not as flexible as a windows machine and as a result there are less potential points at which things can break.


Now one thing to keep in mind is that some people run windows programs in an emulator on Macs my understanding is that some of these emulators require a lot of ram. If you think this might be the case you should ask your mate for a demonstration of how this is done. If hes a mac fanatic he knows what he is doing with his mac he will be able to show you how it works, you may also be able to get an indication of how the system is gunna perform.


Now ultimately if you decide to go down the path of getting a new PC a few things to keep in mind. If you are looking to play the latest games they like to have big beefy video cards. The low end systems have integrated, low performance video cards, so you may need to upgrade that.
The most important thing is that if you vista it sucks (ESPECIALLY ON LAPTOPS). Now if you have a legal copy of windows xp then the trick is to spend extra and get vista BUISNESS. With Vista business you have downgrade rights to windows xp pro.

You are meant to install the xp from a valid cd and with a valid license). When you install xp and it goes to activate it will probably fail, but follow the prompts on the activation and call microsoft on the phone number listed and explain to them that you are downgrading vista business. They will give you an activation code over the phone. I think they are meant to ask you for your vista code so if you dont really have a vista business code you probably dont want to try calling them.

Anyway hope some of the helps. I pretty much use Microsoft based PCs for everything, although i've also used linux i would only use it in business servers. My Mac experience is very limited so some pro Mac people may want to make some positive comments i am not aware of or correct me if any of the above is wrong.

Good Luck :)

[mangoman]

Thats incorrect.

The reason why more memory appears to increase the computers speed is due to the CPU not needing as many wait-states to receive data from memory.

A wait-state is when the CPU is sitting and waiting for data to be fed to it. When a computer has increased memory, it can hold more data in the memory chips (and not on the hard drive) and therefor can move stuff around a lot faster.

The more memory you have, more of the operating systems "kernel" can be held in memory, more area can be allocated for system resources, OS cache, etc. This equals less wait time from the CPU which _appears_ to the user to make the computer faster.

The fact is, 3 billion cycles per second (a 3ghz CPU) is always going to be 3 billions cycles per second regardless of how much memory the computer has.

How many of those cycles are wait-states depends on how quickly the CPU can grab data from memory (chip memory, or hard drive)

Im surprised your school teacher didnt also add that the faster the hard drive then the faster the computer would be. Although he would be wrong, he would be right in how it would appear to the user. Less wait-states for the CPU when retreiving data from the hard drive.

Matt.

While that is right i think its more a case of a bottleneck being created by a limiting factor on the computer. The slowest system on your computer is gunna slow down your computer.
When you look at vista it has ratings for different factors and its overall rating is the lowest of all those ratings.

Lets just say that your leg isnt long enuff to push the pedal on your car all the way to the ground. Does that mean that if you have a longer leg you are actually really making the car faster?

If you have a 2008 spec processor then using an amount of ram which was typical in 2005 well of course that ram aint gunna cut it. Similiarly when you playing the best games there is a CPU and ram on your graphics card which is gunna get pushed to the limit.

But generally speaking the CPU on your motherboard is what does all the work. It will crunch all the instructions and do the real work.
64 bit processor handles instructions completely differently and as a result the operating systems are written differently to be optimized for it. Think of it like counting with 1 finger (binary) then with two hands (decimal) the digits are gunna rack up in binary by the time you get to 100.

Going back to the original question about the mac if you are going to run windows on a mac i ASSUME you would have to get a 64bit version of windows if you wanted to take advantage of the 64 bit characteristics of the mac processor. Now unfortunately once you do this there are going to be programs which will not work on the 64 bit windows.
Its just like the original problem i commented on in that getting a mac in the first place you need to check to see if all your software is gunna run on it. For instance tekin also does not have a 64bit windows version of their hotwire software.
I'm also ASSUMING that when people install windows on Macs these days that they are installing 32 bit versions.

This will mean you are limited to 4GB RAM (well essentially 3GB) but i doubt a second hand mac is gunna have more than 4 GB of ram in it anyway.

Personally i reckon you should steer well clear of 64 bit windows as it's a real lottery and just not worth the hassle.

I think that's it for tonight, let the comments begin :P